Please begin Chapter XI comments here.
Chapter I, Chapter II, Chapter II supplement, Chapter III, Chapter IV, Chapter V, Chapter VI, Chapter VII, Chapter VIII , Chapter IX and Chapter X.
© Copyright 2014 John Dougherty, All rights Reserved. Written For: Investigative MEDIA
There is a new chapter
Direct ‘jumplink’ to the new CHAPTER 12 ( TWELVE ) is…
http://www.investigativemedia.com/yarnell-hill-fire-chapter-xii/
Reply to calvin post on February 13, 2015 at 4:01 pm
NOTE: Brought up from a thread somewhere down below.
>> calvin said…
>>
>> You know B33 had a pretty good idea where GM was.
>> He heard they were moving to a SZ. He possibly heard they were
>> moving towards Yarnell as did Eric Tarr.
Possibly… yes.
Matter of fact… the transmission(s) ( plural ) that Eric Tarr accidentally overheard while standing next to Helicopter Ranger 58 ( at approx 1630, according to Tarr ) were BOTH (supposedly) transmitted directly TO B33 ‘Air Attack’ on the “Air-To-Ground” channel, and the ‘call-sign’ being used by the ‘transmitter’ for BOTH of these transmissions was “Granite Mountain 7” and NOT “Division Alpha”.
This most LIKELY means these TWO transmissions on the A2G channel were originating from Jesse Steed ( or someone else in the GM7 crew ) and NOT DIVSA Eric Marsh himself… who was ( right up until his death ) preceding HIS radio calls with call-sign “Division Alpha” that afternoon.
We also know that the way French and Burfiend had decided to handle the ‘Lead Plane/Air Attack ‘double duty’ that got dropped into their laps at 1558 was to have French concentrate on the A2A channel and Burfiend concentrate on the A2G channel.
So if these TWO transmissions from ( probably Steed ) went up to ‘Air Attack’ on A2G… then it WAS John Burfiend who most likely heard BOTH of them.
The FULL content of BOTH of those transmission(s) has never been fully proven or fully reported by anyone. Not even by Burfiend.
Eric Tarr himself doesn’t even fully recall the transmission(s).
To the best of his recollection… he overhead TWO sequential calls from caller “Granite Mountain 7” in the 1630 timeframe but all he could recall hearing was…
1) He ( GM7 ) advised on the radio they were moving towards Yarnell in the black
( Just a few seconds?/minutes? later )
2) He ( GM7 ) came back up on the radio advising they were heading to a ranch they had in sight.
For the sake of completeness…
Here are those relevant ‘cuts’ regarding BOTH of those ‘GM7’ transmissions
from DPS Officer/Paramedic Eric Tarr’s signed deposition in document
“M-Law-Enforcement no-redactions.pdf”
———————————————————————————————–
EMERGENCY RADIO TRAFFIC
Around 1630 hours I was standing near the aircraft ( Helicopter Ranger 58 ) monitoring traffic on channel Air-To-Ground ( A/G ) 16 when I heard a voice come up on the radio with a Call sign of Granite Mountain 7. He advised on the radio that they were moving towards Yarnell in the black.
A short time later he came back up on the radio advising they were heading to a ranch they had in sight.
It was shortly after THAT Granite Mountain 7 came back up on the radio sounding excited, out of breath, and repeatedly clearing Air Attack with no response.
Granite Mountain 7 (then) advised their escape route had been cut off and they were deploying their shelters.
SEARCH FOR GRANITE MOUNTAIN HOTSHOTS
I saw the ranch house appear through the smoke and knew the Firefighters had said they were trying to get to a ranch house from their prior radio transmissions. We began searching toward the Ranch house from the ridgeline when I located a group of deployed fire shelters off the nose of the aircraft at approximately 1810 hours.
——————————————————————————–
>> calvin also said…
>>
>> And when he finally answers the frantic calls from the trapped WFF’s. He doesn’t
>> even ask where they are. He says in his own words. So you are on the south side
>> of the fire, right?
Correct… but it’s also possible he made that simple assumption by just recalling the FIRST MAYDAY from Captain Jesse Steed when he yelled into the radio “We are in FRONT of the FLAMING FRONT”.
The ‘flaming front’ WAS now heading almost ‘due south’ at that point.
Anyone’s ‘best guess’ at that time as to what that simple statement meant as far as a possible location goes might have been “So… you’re on the SOUTH side of the fire, then?”
I see what you are trying to establish… and I actually DO believe that ‘Bravo 33’ DID see them (previously) ‘behind those hills there’ right before they asked someone to call them and see if “Division Alpha’ was with them and we then get the 4:16 PM “Granite Mountain… what’s your status right now?” call from some ‘mystery caller’…
…but taking JUST the MAYDAY / DEPLOYMENT radio traffic all by itself I still think the same “So… you’re on the SOUTH side of the fire, then?” assumption would have been anyone’s ‘best guess’ just based on that transmission sequence alone.. at THAT time.
>> calvin also said…
>>
>> And as Elizabeth said. The bodies of the GMIHC were found as
>> soon as the smoke cleared enough for Ranger 58 to get into that valley.
Unless you think a DPS Officer’s signed deposition is somehow ‘false’ or being ‘made up’… then YES… there is really NO QUESTION that the reason DPS Helicopter Ranger 58 was finally able to locate the deployment site is because DPS officer Eric Tarr really DID overhear someone ( Steed? ) say something over the A2G channel about a ‘ranch’ in the 1630 timeframe.
Okay… all that being said…
Was there some kind of POINT you were trying to make?
I really don’t see one.
My best ‘guess’ at a ‘point’ y0u might have been trying to make might be along the lines of…
“There is evidence that Eric Tarr heard someone say they were heading to a ranch… and there is evidence that ‘Bravo 33’ also kinda-sorta knew where they were.”
And?…. So??….
Are you ALSO trying to say this is some kind of PROOF that DIVSA Eric Marsh’s DIRECT SUPERVISOR on the fire, OPS1 Todd Abel, was then also properly and automatically INFORMED of exactly what Marsh/Steed/Crew were DOING that afternoon… and that OPS1 Todd Abel is some kind of liar when he says that he had NO IDEA they were even ‘moving’?
My point is that Cordes was not the only person who heard/ overheard radio transmissions from GM/ Marsh that they were moving, and where they were moving. As you stated as a fact earlier, in agreement with Bob.
They were not sneaking around in the brush trying to play some sort of hero role as you have asserted more than once.
That is all.
They were moving, yes, BUT, not one of those people except for Cordes knew exactly WHERE they were headed, OR what route they were taking to get there. Their own supervisor, the one person that absolutely should have known, never had a clue.
The whole ‘south side of the fire’ thing is all relative. They were on the ‘south side of the fire’ when they first started cutting line that day. The ‘south side of the fire could have been anywhere along a several mile long fire front.
You NEVER leave an assigned area unless being chased out by fire, UNLESS you have discussed it with you supervisor.
TTWARE… looks like we pressed TRANSMIT at the same time.
See below.
Yes. There is evidence a lot of people heard ‘snippets’ of radio como…
…but in ALL of the interviews and ALL of the testimony we discover that SPGS1 Gary Cordes appears to be the only one who UNDERSTOOD what it all meant… and it was AOK with him ( paraphrasing Cordes’ testimony: “I felt they had plenty of TIME to get to the Boulder Springs Ranch” ).
Not even this Division’s DIRECT Supervisor had any idea they were ‘moving’.
That is still ‘off the reservation’. and deserves an explanation… because 17 men died horrible deaths right along with the TWO that LED them down into that deathtrap.
It is still absolutely bizarre that there is ( and always has been ) ALL of this evidence that SPGS1 Gary Cordes knew EVERYTHING about the MOVE ( all the details… and not just the obtuse radio como )… yet he was never called back for a second interview and has yet to be DEPOSED under oath.
Again I have to say SPGS1 Was not the immediate Supervisor of DIVS Marsh.
They both worked for OPS1.
Why would there be any contact between either on what Marsh was doing.
OPS1 was left out of the info loop.
Reply to calvin post on February 13, 2015 at 6:49 pm
>> calvin said…
>>
>> My point is that Cordes was not the only person who
>> heard/ overheard radio transmissions from GM/ Marsh
>> that they were moving, and where they were moving.
No, he wasn’t… but my point somewhere below is that it appears that SPGS1 Gary Cordes may have been the ONLY one overhearing these transmissions who actually UNDERSTOOD what the hell they meant.
There is evidence that members of Blue Ridge heard almost all of these confusing ‘snippets’ of radio como that have been reported…
…but they still had no frickin’ idea what any of it really MEANT.
That’s because SPGS1 Gary Cordes didn’t give the same briefing to the SECOND Hotshot Crew to show up in his area that he did to the FIRST Hotshot Crew that morning.
Both Hotshot Crews were working the same general area.
ONE knew what “predetermined escape route” and “ranch” meant.
The other was totally clueless.
>> calvin also said…
>>
>> They were not sneaking around in the brush trying to play
>> some sort of hero role as you have asserted more than once.
>>
>> That is all.
Then what WERE they doing?
Can YOU say for sure?
I’m all ears.
Tying in with adjoining forces
I mean, really. What else would they have been doing?
On whose authority?
It involved ABANDONING a Division… and choosing to NOT notify one’s immediate Supervisor about it.
That’s ‘off the reservation’.
Exactly If OPS1 did not request a move to reengage.
Marsh did not talk to OPS1 about any move
Then what were they doing abandoning there Division.
For no reason. They first said they were committed to the black.
That’s all there direct supervisor knew.
I just ran the following words through both a thesaurus and an ‘anagram scrambler’….
OPS1 to his DIVSA….
1) Hunker and be safe.
2) Keep ME informed.
3) We’ll get some Air Support down there ASAP.
No piece of word-scrambling software I have comes back with…
“And go ahead and tie in with adjoining forces and don’t tell me anything about it… or even HOW you’re doing it.”
WTK said
OPS1 Todd Abel had seen that entire area TWICE from a Helicopter.
He was VERY familiar with the topography, the fuel loads, and distances down there.
Well if that is true. And Abel was familiar with the terrain and topography. Then When Marsh says I am trying to work my way off the top, at 1550, Abel should and would have known that he was coming down off the ridge (off the top).
Todd Abel’s hunker and be safe is the immediate response Abel gave Marsh after Marsh gave him an update stating that he was actively coming off the top. How is that interpreted as obtuse?
You know I would not keep hammering this point if the exchange had went like this.
Marsh…. Yeah, we are sitting here in the black watching the fire move toward the old grader.
Abel… Hunker and be safe, yada yada.
But that is not what was said in the Caldwell video.
Ding, ding, ding.