The transcript of the appeal hearing is here:
The appeal hearing can be seen here:
© Copyright 2020 John Dougherty, All rights Reserved. Written For: Investigative MEDIA
The transcript of the appeal hearing is here:
The appeal hearing can be seen here:
© Copyright 2020 John Dougherty, All rights Reserved. Written For: Investigative MEDIA
I am sorry about your news RTS.
I THINK IT IS TIME FOR ME TO HELP STEP UP FOR YOU
reach me.
This is from the Yarnell Hill Fire Revelations website regarding the June 30, 2013 YH Fire Aerial Firefighting Utilization and Effectiveness (AFUE) FOIA Request lawsuit
( https://www.yarnellhillfirerevelations.com/single-post/2018/10/12/Fred-J-Schoeffler-the-USFS-Aerial-Firefighting-Use-and-Effectiveness-AFUE-Study-Was-Utilized-On-The-Yarnell-Hill-Fire-on-June-30-2013-and-recorded-Air-To-Ground-AG-radio-transmissions-that-exist-as-audio-and-written-transcripts-These-recordings-and-transcripts-3-ring-binder-are-being-withheld-and-denied-that-they-even-exist-I-just-came-across-a-few-key-public-records-basically-affirming-they-do-in-fact-exist-So-then-how-can-the-US-Forest-Service-ethically-and-legally-continue-to-deny-these-Public-Records-exist )
Figure 5. USDA Office of General Counsel (OGC) General Law and Research Division email from Associate General Counsel L. Benjamin Young to USFS Fire Director Tom Harbour regarding YH Fire AFUE records. Red highlighted area referenced below. Source: Joy A Collura’s FOIA Request (2016-FS-R3-04243-F)
“This August 20, 2013, email is a critically key one because it contains information from the USFS Deputy Fire Director Bob Baird to USFS Fire Director Tom Harbour, and George Vargas of the Office of Regulatory and Management Services (ORMS) and numerous OGC employees that the AFUE audio and video records do IN FACT EXIST. “Benny, George Vargas has custody of the disc with the video/audio files for the WO. He is cced.” (emphasis added) Let me further emphasize that in all caps. BENNY, GEORGE VARGAS HAS CUSTODY OF THE DISC WITH THE VIDEO/AUDIO FILES FOR THE WO. HE IS CC’ED. (EMPHASIS ADDED)
“This email thread (August 19-20, 2013) verifies that the USFS and the USDA OGC – the highest levels of Government – knew full well about the AFUE records. OGC Counsel Young wrote to USFS Harbour: ” Also, I understand from our Albuquerque office that a AFRUE (?) [sic] was flying at the time of the incident as part of a nationwide study on application of retardant and capture audio and video of a portion of the tragedy. I also understand ABC News has FOIA’d that tape. I also understand it is now in the hands of our office. Needless to say, please make sure nothing happens to those tapes. Also, please have some copies carefully made for preservation purposes. ” (emphasis added) (See Figure 5 above)
“They admit full well that these AFUE records exist AND to ensure that “nothing happens to those tapes” AND that they want “copies carefully made for preservation purposes.” Yet, in Public Records and FOIA Requests and as well Schoeffler’s FOIA Requests, they deny they exist (“no records responsive to your request”).
“And one more time, emphasized for good measure:
” BENNY, GEORGE VARGAS HAS CUSTODY OF THE DISC WITH THE VIDEO/AUDIO FOR THE WO. HE IS CC’ED.” (EMPHASIS ADDED)
AND
“ I ALSO UNDERSTAND IT IS NOW IN HANDS OF OUR OFFICE. NEEDLESS TO SAY, PLEASE MAKE SURE NOTHING HAPPENS TO THOSE TAPES. ALSO, PLEASE HAVE SOME COPIES CAREFULLY MADE FOR PRESERVATION PURPOSES. ” (EMPHASIS ADDED)
“They admit full well that these AFUE records exist: ” George Vargas has custody of the disc with the video/audio files for the WO … ” and ” I also understand it is now in the hands of our office. Needless to say, please make sure nothing happens to those tapes ” AND that they want ” copies carefully made for preservation purposes .” (emphasis added)
If all this is factual – which it appears that it is – then why are we being told that these very records that we have requested are being denied and told they have “no records responsive to your request”?
Additionally, you heard Attorney Schwartz mention the name ” Marvin .” This is the USFS Fire Management Officer employee that seized the 3-ring binder of June 2013 AFUE written / typed transcripts from his Assistant HS Foreman and threatened him to never collect any further evidence on the GMHS ever again.
The Ass’t HS Foreman later became a USFS HS Superintendent under Marvin on another Forest and Ranger District. This new HS Supt. initially supported the AFUE FOIA lawsuit with verbal confirmations about willing to testify in court and also willing to be subpoenaed for a deposition. He supplied a legal declaration for the case admitting the above.
An affidavit is a written document attached to an affirmation, such as a notary public oath, which states that the statements in the document are true. Declarations are written documents the writer believes are true, but the statements contained in the declaration are made without the writer being sworn in.
He would then be pressured by the USFS to change his legal declaration, which he did. And he turned Quisling , betrayed Schoeffler, and was duly “rewarded” with a promotion and a transfer to the Kootenai NF in Montana in USFS Region One as a GS-11 District Fire Management Officer. Marvin was similarly “rewarded.”
So much for the trusted Hot Shot “Brotherhood” and Honoring the Fallen, ey. As a reminder, Vidkun Abraham Lauritz Jonssøn Quisling was a Norwegian military officer and politician who nominally headed the government of Norway during the occupation of the country by Nazi Germany during World War II. The word “quisling” became a byword for “collaborator” or “traitor” in several languages, reflecting the contempt with which Quisling’s conduct has been regarded. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidkun_Quisling )
These “rewards” are classic, historical USFS machinations ( “a scheming or crafty action or artful design intended to accomplish some usually evil end” ) for betrayals and such.
Firefighter fights feds for radio recordings from deadly Arizona wildfire ~ Missoula Current
https://www.missoulacurrent.com/government/2020/02/radio-recordings-wildfire/
The USDA USFS AFUE FOIA transcripts being requested are being withheld from public view. The transcripts augment the SAIT-SAIR statement by GMHS Marsh witnessing the lead plane dry run and stating, in part, “that’s exactly the routexwe want you to take.”
The USDA USFS contention that they have been turned over to AZ State Forestry as DropBox(es) is a Straw Man fallacy. Only some, NOT all have been turned over. The requested AFUE transcripts contained in a 3-ring binder are missing.
Joy has USFS and USDA Office of General Counsel email threads between their Fire Management Directors and OGC indicating that OGC George Vargas has copies of the recordings, noting how important they are, and to make copies “for preservation purposes.”
The USFS, who funded the ASF YH Fire SAIT-SAIR continues to lie to the American public.
Go to the USFS AFUE FOIA post on http://www.yarnellhillfirerevelations.com
Lawsuit seeks radio recordings from Yarnell Hill Fire that killed 19 Granite Mountain Hotshots
( https://www.dcourier.com/news/2020/feb/13/lawsuit-seeks-radio-recordings-yarnell-hill-fire/ )
“Radio recordings that reportedly could shed light on the 2013 Yarnell Hill Fire tragedy are at issue in an ongoing lawsuit that was heard by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in Phoenix on Feb. 7.
A three-justice panel of the 9th Circuit heard an appeal of a lower court’s ruling on former Payson Hotshot superintendent Fred Schoeffler’s ongoing legal effort to get information that he claims has been hidden by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA).
The suit, filed in 2017, seeks aircraft radio transmission recordings from the June 2013 Yarnell Hill Fire that killed 19 members of Prescott’s Granite Mountain Hotshots crew.
The half-hour-long hearing by the panel pits arguments by Schoeffler’s attorney David Richard Schwartz against those by USDA attorney Bill Solomon.
At issue in the suit is whether the USDA adequately searched for the documents that Schoeffler asked for in a 2016 Freedom of Information Act request.
On Feb. 7, Schwartz told the 9th Circuit panel: “This case involves whether the USDA is knowingly hiding records related to the Hotshot deaths in the Yarnell Hill Fire.”
According to the original January 2017 complaint in U.S. District Court, Schoeffler sent a FOIA request to the USDA’s Forest Service in June 2016, seeking all voice recordings and written transcripts related to the June 30, 2013 Yarnell Hill Fire, as well as communications “to and from any and all air resources and any and all Incident Management Team and any and all operational and ground personnel.”
The complaint adds that Schoeffler “is certain that these air-to-ground records exist.”
The USDA later responded that it had turned over the information to a state investigator and that the information had already been made public.
But Schoeffler’s lawsuit claimed that the USDA’s answer was not responsive to his request.
In 2018, Chief U.S. Judge of the U.S. District Court G. Murray Snow ruled that Schoeffler had not exhausted administrative appeals, and the case went on to the 9th Circuit.
Schwartz maintained that the lower court erred, in part, because the USDA has told the courts that the department no longer has the original records.
“It’s not true, and there’s evidence in the record it’s not true,” Schwartz told the panel. “It’s undisputed that in August (2013), USDA FOIA was telling news organizations, ‘we have the recordings.’”
Although the USDA responded that the information had been made public in a Dropbox, Schwartz said, “There is no FOIA exemption that says ‘Oh, we gave it to somebody else, and they made them publicly available; we don’t have to produce what we have.’ That doesn’t exist.”
Judge Andrew Hurwitz pointed out, however, that FOIA requires that a “reasonably adequate search” be conducted. “The fact that you’ve discovered a document that wasn’t produced in the search isn’t evidence that they didn’t conduct a reasonably adequate one,” he told Schwartz.
USDA attorney Solomon also emphasized that point, telling the 9th Circuit panel, “The issue is not whether there might exist some other records possibly responsive to appellant’s FOIA request; the issue is whether the search for those records was adequate.”
Citing case law, Solomon said, “Failure to produce or identify a few isolated records — which is what we’re arguing about here — cannot by itself defeat the adequacy of a search.”
He added: “The fact that the document once existed does not mean it now exists. And the fact that an agency created a document doesn’t necessarily imply that the agency has retained the document.”
In Solomon’s conclusion, he asked the 9th Circuit panel to uphold Snow’s earlier ruling. “In this case, as in any FOIA case, the appellant is entitled to a reasonable search, not a perfect one,” he said. “And a reasonable search is what he got. And for that reason, the Department of Agriculture respectfully requests that this court uphold Chief Judge Snow’s rulings …”
Schoeffler’s attorney Schwartz concluded by asking the court to reverse the lower court’s ruling and remand the case back for bench trial.
“Whatever they have, we want it,” he told the panel. “There’s no declaration, no affidavit; there’s no evidence that they don’t have it today. Give it to us if you’ve got them.”
Judge Hurwitz concluded by saying the case had been submitted.”
Finally busted a move and subscribed to the Daily Courier for a few months only to find out that no opportunity to post comments.
And, of course, the attacks by the naysayers and those wanting desperately to bury the truth about what occurred and why on June 30, 2013, intensified.
Superintendent not Chief
Title correction